Well, I asked for it, I may as well post in it.

[sentinel]

So, the question is:
Mega heroes: Threats or Menaces?

Do you use them?
Do you like them?
Do they serve a purpose in your campaign, or are they a waste of paper?

[sawg138]

They have their place, depending on the group's style. I haven't used one to start, though both my X-Brats characters wound up being Mega and then some. Of course one was the grandson of Apocalypse.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I like and use them. I'm usually for an open-ended game. i have no problem with mega heros and super slueths running side by side. powers not as important as wit and playstyle

[sentinel]

I pose the question as I re-read Kevin Siembedas' criticism of the "mega-hero" excerpted from Heroes Unlimited.
Kevin finds that the mega hero somehow detracts from creative problem solving and thinking, instead simply smashing and bashing their way through every problem, although I rarely find that to be the case, except of course for NPC villains (who are the opponents of the players, after all). Yet, despite this, Kevin gives us (in Rifts), the Dragon Hatchling, and the Glitter Boy. Now, if these aren't "mega-beings", I don't know what are. I am not criticising them: I like and enjoy playing both (and I allow both in my campaigns). But to say on one hand a mega hero is not a thinking mans' character, and then to build up such powerhouses for Rifts seems contradictory.
At the same time, I wondered how other people really felt about the megas: surely there are GMs who don't like them, and don't use them.

I use them myself, although I always try to justify why a character needs to be a Mega, and not simply a standard example of Experiment or Mutant, or whathaveyou. Since I could do a mutant with Create Force Field, Super Energy Expulsion and APS Plasma, why would I need to make him a Mega? An Experiment with Invulnerability, Supernatural PS, and Immortality wouldn't really need to be a Mega Hero either.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I think it's really simply because KS didn't really want a...well, SUPER super game. he didn't want the superheros able to affect the whole world (simultaniosuly at least)

I think it's just what he wanted. I think ultimatly he wanted a small-scale heros game.

[sentinel]

And I certainly don't want to sound like I'm knocking the idea of a lower powered game.
It's just sort of contradictory to say power-houses detract from skill based problem solving in one game setting, but not from another.
Particularly when the powerhouses of Rifts more than equal the HU characters.
The Dragon and Glitter Boy from the Main Book, the Magus from FoM, the Cosmo Knight from Phase World, The Sea Titans of Underseas, Temporal Warriors, Demigods, Godlings, ...the list goes on.

[sawg138]

"It's Rifts, it doesn't have to make sense."

[sentinel]

The quote I always liked best was:

"Truth is stranger than Fiction, because Fiction has to make sense."

[sawg138]

sentinel said:

The quote I always liked best was:

"Truth is stranger than Fiction, because Fiction has to make sense."

By that line of thinking, Rifts is worse than reality.

[sentinel]

sawg138 said:

sentinel said:

The quote I always liked best was:

"Truth is stranger than Fiction, because Fiction has to make sense."

By that line of thinking, Rifts is worse than reality.

As a core concept, Rifts is a great setting.
The post-apocalptic enviornment, the struggle of mankind to survive against hordes of inhuman enemies and invaders, the amazing power and presence of magic as an equal counter-point to technology, and so on.
There are certain elements of the execution of the game that make it unworkable in some areas, but I won't go into those here, reserving that conversation for the more appropriate Palladium Board.

[sawg138]

sentinel said:

sawg138 said:

By that line of thinking, Rifts is worse than reality.

As a core concept, Rifts is a great setting.
The post-apocalptic enviornment, the struggle of mankind to survive against hordes of inhuman enemies and invaders, the amazing power and presence of magic as an equal counter-point to technology, and so on.
There are certain elements of the execution of the game that make it unworkable in some areas, but I won't go into those here, reserving that conversation for the more appropriate Palladium Board.

I'm not disagreeing, but I think we've heard my bitching enough on other boards as well.

[zenvis]

sentinel said:

I pose the question as I re-read Kevin Siembedas' criticism of the "mega-hero" excerpted from Heroes Unlimited.
Kevin finds that the mega hero somehow detracts from creative problem solving and thinking, instead simply smashing and bashing their way through every problem, although I rarely find that to be the case, except of course for NPC villains (who are the opponents of the players, after all). Yet, despite this, Kevin gives us (in Rifts), the Dragon Hatchling, and the Glitter Boy. Now, if these aren't "mega-beings", I don't know what are. I am not criticising them: I like and enjoy playing both (and I allow both in my campaigns). But to say on one hand a mega hero is not a thinking mans' character, and then to build up such powerhouses for Rifts seems contradictory.
At the same time, I wondered how other people really felt about the megas: surely there are GMs who don't like them, and don't use them.

I use them myself, although I always try to justify why a character needs to be a Mega, and not simply a standard example of Experiment or Mutant, or whathaveyou. Since I could do a mutant with Create Force Field, Super Energy Expulsion and APS Plasma, why would I need to make him a Mega? An Experiment with Invulnerability, Supernatural PS, and Immortality wouldn't really need to be a Mega Hero either.

Getting back on topic. I love the megahero and villain. If there was a consortium of super villains that could kick the butt of anyone... well almost. I had a team of megas go against a collection of regular guys and it was awesome. The drama and power struggle was just sweet. ;D
Of course there is the new addition of Rifter 37 and its new mega beings. That just adds to the flavor.

[znbrtn]

megas are a welcome addition in my book. even moreso with the rifter 37's extra options. i especially like the special training and mutant animal options. and yeah, it did always strike me as odd that he said he didn't want megas on one hand, while creating the cosmo-knight on the other.

[writersblock]

I include Megas in some of my games. It is all a matter of balance. It is, in reality, a combination of die rolls and powers matched with the ability of the player that makes a character a real threat or not. Any character, no mater the powers, has some sort of weakness for villains (and GMs) to exploit.

[Flip]

i'm with writer's block on this. it depends solely on the campaign and game the GM is running.

for instance, my own sunday night campaign, will work up until the characters may reach something equivalent for a mega hero status but i forced them all to start as majorly weak characters. a mega hero included would have been horrible for that campaign, but i WOULD allow glitterboys, simply because they have a major weakness, having to depend on getting into their glitterboy, activate it, drill and and THAN finally take a decent shot at the enemy.
i'd even allow a dragon hatchling, if played by a player i trust to play them correctly, (that is with a child like curiosity that will often get their character and the group they're in with in trouble)

where as i've played a mega hero starting off in a campaign as swell, but it was a campaign of mega heroes, so it didn't make that much of a difference.

it completely depends on the campaign in my humble opinion, i won't say they're a waste of paper, the variety of these games is what makes them interesting, but neither do i personally feel them a neccesary component or feel they're more than even just one more high power class tacked on.
(i never needed a systemized approved high powered character before, if i wish tio make the characters high powered, i could do it much easier than following their character creation rules for one, that from i've heard, tend to be more fun to play)

[sawg138]

On a side note about the limited thinking caused by such high powered characters, who hasn't seen a D&D mage become a fireball machine at some point? "My plan? Fireball everything in sight."

[rockwolf66]

sawg138 said:

On a side note about the limited thinking caused by such high powered characters, who hasn't seen a D&D mage become a fireball machine at some point? "My plan? Fireball everything in sight."

sounds like my Mystic Theomancer faceing Drow that are about five level's higher than himself. Basically he was crossing his fingers and hoping that they would both fail their reflex save and He would beat their spell resistance.

[sawg138]

Speak 2nd Ed please. I don't follow Weiners of the Crap.

[rockwolf66]

sawg138 said:

Speak 2nd Ed please. I don't follow Weiners of the Crap.

Too bad for both of us. I have not seen a 2nd Ed book around here in Years.

[sawg138]

I still have all of mine.

[writersblock]

I feel both the playability and the game balance of the mega-hero lies solely in three factors (the same three that apply to most of the powerhouse classes in most game systems) :

1) The scale of the game. I have played and run games where even the most powerful mega hero is no biggie.

2) The powers. Some of the mega hero abilities are more combat oriented than others and, the reality of the situation is, these sorts of powers are the hardest to deal with for both GMs and other players.

3) The experience of the GM. In my experience, a GM who has been around and done lots of games rarely has a problem with even "Superman" level characters.

[sawg138]

Wubby, that's crazy talk.

[writersblock]

I know, I should be ashamed.

I even managed to say it without bashing PB.

Please don't tell on me; someone might revoke my Hater's Club Membership...

[sawg138]

Edit in with *Insert generic Palladium bash here*

[Mammon]

Personally, I like them. I like smashing them in the grill and occasionally killing them. This is a little beyond Kevin's original scale, but hey, HU is supposed to be a comic book simulator, not a 'Batman' simulator. I grew up with Marvel Cosmic series, Silver Surfer drop kicking the Hulk from Orbit, Adam Warlock slaying an entire timeline etc. Captain Mar-vell dies folks! Of space cancer!

It is also fun when the occasional government object, and Mega Heroes/Villains show them just how great the divide between 'Power out the mouth of a gun' and they really are; that governments rule only by use of force, not rightness or rule of law.

I'll take my Mega Hero in Symbiote form, please.