Irksome Terminology

[sawg138]

Flip just found something that irks me. The use of what should be game mechanics terminology in character. Like ISP or Mega-Damage are vernacular in the flavor text. I can understand PPE, it at least has canon flavor text references, but mechanics should remain out of character language only.

[Flip]

nah, mega damage should be a common term, to distinguish an sdc tank from an mdc one. we'd have terms like that. we just wouldn't be able to quote numbers for damage like 24 mdc.

[Flip]

and isp is just a unit we'd measure isp in. much like a litre, or an inch, neither term would make much sense if used without measuring something. that's all isp is, a unit of measurement, if you can have a name for chi or ppe, than why not isp?

[sawg138]

flip said:

and isp is just a unit we'd measure isp in. much like a litre, or an inch, neither term would make much sense if used without measuring something. that's all isp is, a unit of measurement, if you can have a name for chi or ppe, than why not isp?

PPE is potential psychic energy, but I've never seen it quantified in flavor text, same with chi. They're given as low, medium, high, etc. "I'm low on energy after that spell/psionic power/chi mastery use" makes a hell of a lot more sense in character.

[Flip]

why not give a name to that energy? sounds like a human thing to do, epsecially since the energy pools don't seem to come from the same source.

[sawg138]

flip said:

why not give a name to that energy? sounds like a human thing to do, epsecially since the energy pools don't seem to come from the same source.

Or just call it strength or energy?

[Flip]

...
mig...
it IS called strength.
ISP = inner strength points.

[sawg138]

flip said:

...
mig...
it IS called strength.
ISP = inner strength points.

Points being a key word to make the term game mechanics. Unless you can tell me what your PS, PE, PB, or PPE are.

[mrc0006]

PPE has been given an in game designation, by Victor Lazlo and other scholarly type folk. As well as mega-damage, at least for armor plating and the such...as well as reference to mega-damage. Armor has the "mega-damage capacity" to withstand mega-damage attacks from lasers and the such. Though nobody really USES these terms in game, they use the term "energy" or "inner strength", "mental strength" etc...while I DO believe terms like "mega-damage" can apply in game/character they just wouldn't often be used since it's kinda silly for someone to say "Dang! Check out the mega-damage capacity on THAT armor!" as opposed to "Dang! That's some tough armor!" See? The terms like PPE and MDC used in game I think apply to a more technical/scientific side of the game, say for the people who build the armor/weapons/etc. And PPE would more be something used among (as I said earlier) scholarly individuals you want to use the big fancy wording, instead of just "energy" or "inner strength" or whatever...


Man I hope that made some kind of sense...

[sawg138]

I'll buy PPE, it has been used as part of the setting and part of the game mechanics. Where has mega-damage or inner strength point been used in the setting text as opposed to game mechanics?

[mrc0006]

Plating used on armor like the Glitterboy is refered to as mega-damage plating. Thus, it can be assumed that they would refer to it as such in game, or...ya know, something really technical like "Poly-carbonate Tri-titanium armor plating" or some such popicock. and I used the term inner strength to apply to someone's energies in a general term, whether it be psychic or magical in nature.

[sawg138]

johnathan said:

Plating used on armor like the Glitterboy is refered to as mega-damage plating. Thus, it can be assumed that they would refer to it as such in game, or...ya know, something really technical like "Poly-carbonate Tri-titanium armor plating" or some such popithingy. and I used the term inner strength to apply to someone's energies in a general term, whether it be psychic or magical in nature.

It would be called chromium armor plating or something similar.

[artemis]

the word 'points' doesn't automatically make something a game mechanic only term. Fault points, stress points, ect are all terms used for technology, so that doesn't disqualify them.

Mega Damage is actually a term used in real life today odly enough. Discovery channel has a show called monster machines and uses it for the machines that can take alot of stress, damage, or do damage. Considering the harsh distinction between sdc and mdc armor it's not surprising that a term has come up to distinquish between them.

Honestly, i think it all comes down to a matter of in the know. scholarly mages or dedicated psychics likely use the terms ppe, but those where magic comes naturally, like mystics or warlocks would likely use energy or strength. Mega Damage would be sorta the opposite. Mega Damage smells largely like a slang term, meanwhile people in the know(mechanics, ect) would likely be able to point out the legitimate terms for the plating.

[sawg138]

Which still doesn't justify in character use of inner strength points.

[Flip]

why not?

[sawg138]

flip said:

why not?

It's quantifying something that should be quantified in game mechanics only. Similar to the fact you couldn't honestly list an attribute like ME.

[mrc0006]

"It's quantifying something that should be quantified..."

Does anyone else find this little section right kind of...redundent? I dunno, maybe it's just me.

Here's what I say, we mesh Art's statement and mine (which in my mind are the exact same, art was just able to say it better...bastard) and call it a day.

[sawg138]

johnathan said:

"It's quantifying something that should be quantified..."

Does anyone else find this little section right kind of...redundent? I dunno, maybe it's just me.

Here's what I say, we mesh Art's statement and mine (which in my mind are the exact same, art was just able to say it better...bastard) and call it a day.

So sue me for missing a contraction, I just got home from work and have a sinus headache. Or better yet not play out of context theater and look at the whole quote. You missed the important words "game mechanic." That makes all the difference.

[Flip]

i'm not altogether sure i can agree to it being just a game mechanic.
it seems to me people would come up with seperate names for the two seperate energies like magic and psionics.
unfortunately palladium made it a little confusing, we can't just call it magic energy and psychic energy, because they called magic energy "potential psychic energy" , so if we tried calling psionic energy "psychic energy" the two terms would be confusing. Palladium's way around this problem was calling it "inner strength" and just threw on 'points' for no real reason i can determine for a certainty, mostly just for measurements of inner strength is what i assume.

you can call it game mechanics all you like, but the fact that game mechanics had to come up with two different names so we as the players could understand it, is proof enough to me, that the english language would come up withtwo seperate names for these two seperate energies, and measurements for the quantity of each, considering they seem different from person to person, which is able to seen with any basic see aura spell or psionic.

[sawg138]

So where's the way to measure it? I can understand inner strength as the label for psychic energy since KS was goofy enough to put "psychic" in the tag for magic energy, but this should be a matter of relativity, not flat points in character. "I can do ___ a few times, then my mind will not have any more strength for my psychic abilities." Not "I'm three Inner Strength Points from being able to use my psi-sword again."

[Flip]

now that's just cause isp, without the p would be "is". see the problem?
by calling it like i said, think of 1 isp, like 1 volt. only like you said, we wouldn't use numerals, it'd probably end up being high, medium, or low ISP. it'd probably take some new device to actually measure the exact amount of isp.
this still would leave us free to use the term isp instead of "is" though, so there'd be less confusion. (and i wouldn't have to place it in quotaions everytime i go to use the bloody thing)

[Flip]

in the example you listed instead of three i'd've said this.
"i'm just a little isp short of being able to call my psi sword..."

there wouldn't be a way of knowing, in increments how far you are from using it, but i figure you'd know if you were only a tiny bit short of the energy needed. which is what i attempted to say when i irked you. i did in measurements on how many times i could use my nul bubble, not how much isp it costs and how much i have.

[sawg138]

flip said:

in the example you listed instead of three i'd've said this.
"i'm just a little isp short of being able to call my psi sword..."

there wouldn't be a way of knowing, in increments how far you are from using it, but i figure you'd know if you were only a tiny bit short of the energy needed. which is what i attempted to say when i irked you. i did in measurements on how many times i could use my nul bubble, not how much isp it costs and how much i have.

You're still using points.

[Flip]

is the example all you read of that?

[sawg138]

flip said:

is the example all you read of that?

No, that's just what I responded to. Hell, by my figuring, there should be a bajillion ways to describe PPE in character since about every magic using culture will use a different word, either by language or cultural differences.

[Flip]

true.

[Ben]

The way to explain the terminology is that it is a hold over from the Golden Age. Remember, there is a mechanical device that amplifys psychic energy, uses psychic energy, and recognizes a psychic by his psionic fields, by his aura. Does it not then make sense that there would be devices that can measure the energy? Hence Inner Strength Points, and why there is no Potential Psychic Energy Points, only Potential Psychic Energy.

PPE was not abundant, so they were unable to measure it in anything but liveing creatures. Those that had psionics had very little, those who had no psionics had more energy, and while adults had little, children had much more, a 'proto-energy' as it were, just waiting to be shaped. Hence, Potential Psichic Energy. And, since there are no machines that utilize or measure PPE, I can only hypothisize that they couldn't realy detect it in any greater detail than low, medium, or great amount.

The MDC explanation used above is, well, I don't realy need to say it again.

[dracolych]

Ben said:

The way to explain the terminology is that it is a hold over from the Golden Age. Remember, there is a mechanical device that amplifys psychic energy, uses psychic energy, and recognizes a psychic by his psionic fields, by his aura. Does it not then make sense that there would be devices that can measure the energy? Hence Inner Strength Points, and why there is no Potential Psychic Energy Points, only Potential Psychic Energy.

PPE was not abundant, so they were unable to measure it in anything but liveing creatures. Those that had psionics had very little, those who had no psionics had more energy, and while adults had little, children had much more, a 'proto-energy' as it were, just waiting to be shaped. Hence, Potential Psichic Energy. And, since there are no machines that utilize or measure PPE, I can only hypothisize that they couldn't realy detect it in any greater detail than low, medium, or great amount.

The MDC explanation used above is, well, I don't realy need to say it again.

This one is mine.

[Flip]

agreeable, i'll just smiye palladium for using confusing terms if'n ya don't mind

[Flip]

*smite