A Pondering

[sawg138]

As you may or may not have noticed, I am not the happiest of campers in Neky's game. Part of this stems from the fact it seems like multiple games that sometimes overlap. I am weary of this and unsure if the game is worth playing in any longer. Not that I expect anyone to actually read this...

[Flip]

I don't know man, honestly that description fits Ed's game perfectly, and you seem fine with that one.

besides, you're on your 3rd character, and have brought more juarez into this game than there was in juarez... what were you expecting? i'd help if i could but if you want all our characters to play nice, your characters have to BE nice.
(sappho, ringo and marcus aren't exactly the most congenial of people)
i know you're gonna call Mick a dick, cause he's been one, but you can ask your wife, if you're nice to him, in spite of how he introduces himself, he's nice back.
if you're looking for teamwork, you gotta participate as part of the team, and try something that isn't a juarez refugee once in awhile...
(that and stop picking on sab, you KNOW he doesn't want to be part of a team, so just stop trying to force him on it)

I'm sorry if this sounds hearsh, i'm not trying to be, i'm mostly not seeing your problem with this style, as it's been what the game has been since it began, and what ed's has been since i first started playing. what is it that you want from it, and maybe we can help the supply meet the demand?

[sawg138]

There was a time where Ed's game wasn't so closed, apart from Sab anyway. He's the way he is and has been that way for all the years I've known him. I don't expect shit from him, haven't in a long time. But how is it being nice is good for the goose and not for the gander? You see Marc as a dick because he was one to Mick, but that's all Mick's been to him. As for Ed's game, it's somehow easier to not care and ignore what's going on.

[Flip]

you misread. I said MICK was the dick, not marcus. and than said if treated nice despite MICK'S crappy introduction of himself, he will be congenial back.it's jsut a rough surface. Any of the characters that hung out with him know it. he even got along with Jeremy in the end, and that's WITH jeremy hitting on him all the time.

[Flip]

at any rate. you don't throw up a public renounciation of Ed's game despite it's grown over time closure. nor did you mention anythiong about how that's been the way of this game since the start of the day.
nor comment about the parade to germany from juarez.

despite his moods Mick's one of the few that try to keep what team there is together, well until his team lessened from morgan marcus, carol, and ni jun to carol and ni jun. not much of a team left to keep.

i told you long ago that the secret of getting along with him is simply be a good person. Somehow i don't see ringo, a known and obvious killer and profiteer is gonna meet that high standard of being a good person.... >.>

so what do we NOW have to work with? carol stole hugely powerful magic items from mickand passed them out wherever she wanted. ni jun.... well she'll help when she feels like it.
we have a new merc bodyguard for susan, and if any of the past ones are to go by, she'll end up being useless. (no offense to juli, but just looking at the pass records of susan's body guards mick isn't exactly overly enthused about the contributions the new one will give, she has plenty of time to prove his first impression wrong)

I'll agree Mick's a rough spot, but i've built at least 20 ways to get past that over the past two years! what do you want me to throw him away?

i can't tell you all the answers, i can say that if there's not enough team players than it shouldn't be surprising that there's no team. mick makes it more difficult? yes. sorry? i can't help that without throwing mick away

[sawg138]

Juli is no longer in the game. And why should I care about playing nice with Mick now? He is who he is and Ringo is who he is.

[Flip]

if you didn't care, why are you posting this? i thought this was to work out the problems, and the problems are kinda oviously in the group dynamics.

btw, this isn't a case of what's good for the goose isn't goo for the gander. the other geese are thus fine with it.

[sawg138]

Since you and I are the only ones who seem to even bother here and you seem as tired of my "Juarez refugees" and I am of the group dynamic, maybe I am in the wrong game here.

[Flip]

*shrugs* maybe. but if you're complaining about the group dynamic, and from what i can tell, switching characters so it'll work better for you, i just suggest picking someone who gets along with people. you'll find the dynamic will change, i'm sure.

i've grown used to the group dynamic. It used to ug me alot, but really when i think about it, that's just how this game in paticular is played, because of the characters that are in the game.

I'm NOT giving up mick, i enjoy being the badass one for once, every other game i play the goody two shoes. It's nice to be the 'cool character' every once in awhile. Russ enjoys playin Carol, and sab enjoys the way he plays.

I'm just saying if you want to change the group dynamic so much, pick a character that can DO that.if you keep picking characters that don't give a damn about what other people think and go their own route, than don't be surprised when we do the same and each go our own routes.

[sawg138]

Sab isn't changing, you're not giving up Mick. I don't care to fight it. We can run with this and the game'll just be a bunch of solo games that sometimes overlap. I did have someone who wanted to work with the group, the group never worked back. And since we are the only two who even bother coming here, that should say something about the game.

[Flip]

neky's boards aren't popular. neky knows about this conversation she just said that she's already had this conversation with you.

and marcus tended to go do his own thing as much as anyone else,. mick tried to accomadate him many a mission.

look at MY game's boards! there's not even characters up, no one uses them, but that doesn't mean people dislike the fgame. it just means no one comes here.

i'm not putting anymore changes to mick, i've already done enough. if people don't want to help him work the bugs out, that's up to people. i enjoy playing him, and if you think i'm gonna change him just so you can accomodate ringo, or any other new character you decide to bring in i'm sorry. it just ain't happening.
You're the one making a new character if you want him to get along with the group design him and his personality so that he WILL get along with the group. that's all i'm saying.

[sawg138]

I got Ringo so I could play something that isn't dependent on the group and can do more than kill monsters. And making allowances by doing nothing but give orders and speak down to someone is no way to encourage their willingness to cooperate. So Marc's big accomplishment, inspiring the Tin Men and getting them to think about more than the gang went virtually without RP and uncovered in the game. There is no group to get along with and the only PC who is friendly and accessible is Carol.

[Flip]

correct, the only PC friendly and accessible is indeed carol. how does ringo help that fact?

Mick makes orders because the only other person that stepped up to lead could only kill things and refused to do anything else. and THSOE weren't the allowances i made. MIck would be deliriously happy if someone else took the leadership role. i'll point out before that HE NEVER WANTED THE damn ROLE.
he thought it was the worst idea in mankind's history to put him in charge. But in charage he stayed because like it or not he managed to get things done.
Feel free to usurp hiim, but you're not likely to usurp him with Ringo. *Shrugs

the allowances 'I' made were that he would FOLLOW orders, not give them. and the only requirement is that the person he follows BE a good person.
he was never meant to lead, mick is a soldier bred to follow orders. you just need to have his respect for him to follow you. that's why in the end he'd do whatever Morgan asked of him.

the leader role can be filled by whoever wants the job. even now, ringo could usurp him, just don't expect mick to follow him. carol will. and as she's the only follower anyone can have with the current cast of characters, that's all you really need.


as for the tin men, did you bother asking neky why?

[sawg138]

I suppose you know why then? And for the record, I don't want to play leader. I had enough leadership in the Corps. I'm not doing it for fun.

[Flip]

Yes.
I do know why, and i'm pretty sure she wants you to ask her. as she asked me not to post it, i leave that between you and her.

and you don't want to be the leader, but you're gonna kick up a fuss about someone giving orders?
I can understand not like being talked down to, but being ordered around when you don't want to give orders? if you don't want to follow orders, and you don't want to give them, than THERE's your problem.
There isn't many of us that want to give orders or follow them. so it shouldn't surprise you that we all do our own things. you can either enjoy it when our stories overlap.
(which frankly i very much enjoy, because our stories DO overlap alot. my favorite novels are nearly always about people with nothing in common but overlapping stories. So i don't see the problem there.)

[Flip]

sawg138 said:

I did have someone who wanted to work with the group, the group never worked back. And since we are the only two who even bother coming here, that should say something about the game.

Also about this.... so the 'entire group' didn't work back...? doesn't that mean that the group decided to do something else, and marc was the odd ball out?
correct me if i'm wrong, but that how i read that sentence. rememebr just because it didn't decide to do what marc wanted doesn't mean it wasn't working as a group... i doubt that's the problem here, jsut how ya worded it, it came out like that in my mind. XD